tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post6245380963331677272..comments2023-12-05T03:34:14.680-05:00Comments on <b>Issa's Untidy Hut</b>: Sam Hamill's BashōIssa's Untidy Huthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-85229537976335562192010-10-14T15:23:49.077-04:002010-10-14T15:23:49.077-04:00Fred:
Thanks for the Beilenson - interestingly, t...Fred:<br /><br />Thanks for the Beilenson - interestingly, that is not one of the 6 translations I am going to discuss and it definitely brings something different to the table. Here are the other five:<br /><br /> As the sound fades,<br />the scent of flowers comes up–<br /> the evening bell.<br />tr. by Robert Hass<br /><br /><br /> The temple bell dies away <br />The scent of flowers in the evening <br /> Is still tolling the bell.<br />tr. R. H. Blyth<br /><br /><br /><br />The temple bell stops – <br />but the sound keeps coming<br />out of the flowers.<br />tr. Robert Bly<br /><br /><br />As the bell notes fade,<br />the scent of cherry lingers.<br />Evening twilight.<br />trans. by Tom Lowenstein<br /><br /><br />fading temple bell<br />the fragrance of flowers strikes<br />at evening<br />tr. Jane Reichhold<br /><br /><br />There is so much here I hope to work up a future post once I've given the presentation.<br /><br />best,<br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-56701267753404174322010-10-14T12:26:51.552-04:002010-10-14T12:26:51.552-04:00Don,
Silent the old town . . .
The scent of flowe...Don,<br /><br />Silent the old town . . .<br />The scent of flowers floating . . .<br />And evening bell<br />-- Basho --<br /><br />trans. Peter BeilensonFredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-54132001338434337032010-10-11T12:21:07.866-04:002010-10-11T12:21:07.866-04:00Fred:
Like you, Lyle's comments spurred me on...Fred:<br /><br />Like you, Lyle's comments spurred me on to look for Bashō's Ghost - I've a copy coming my way.<br /><br />Interesting, about the multiple translations. Next week, I'm teaching a group of lifelong learner's an introductory session to haiku (first one for me) and one of the things we'll be looking at is 6 different translations of a Bashō haiku (plus a transliteration of the original). One simple haiku, the first translation of which really didn't do much for me, has, as a result of all the translations place side by side, gotten me completely in its thrall.<br /><br />Here's the first translation that spurred the whole thing:<br /><br /><br />Temple bells die out.<br /> The fragrant blossoms remain.<br /> A perfect evening!<br /><br />tr. Daniel C. Buchanan<br /><br />By the time I was done I realized that I'd gotten as close to an explanation of the mystery of all things that I'll probably ever get.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-22420351664614013312010-10-11T10:33:17.951-04:002010-10-11T10:33:17.951-04:00Back when I was teaching, I had a recurring proble...Back when I was teaching, I had a recurring problem with students when working with stories in translation. Frequently they would have different translations, and the question always came up--Which is the right one?<br /><br />I then would distribute a handout with 7 translations of Basho's poem about the nameless little hill and point out that if a short poem such as this one could bring about a variety of translations, that it shouldn't be surprising that a long prose story would do the same. Translation is not an exact science. <br /><br /><br />Spring morning marvel . . .<br />Lovely nameless little hill<br />On a sea of mist<br /><br />- Basho -Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-23220405660027011302010-10-11T10:19:44.539-04:002010-10-11T10:19:44.539-04:00Lyle,
Your comments regarding _Basho's Ghost_...Lyle,<br /><br />Your comments regarding _Basho's Ghost_ spurred me to go searching for the book. <br /><br />It is back in print again, or at least as recently as 2004, when an edition came out published by <br />Carnegie Mellon Univ Press.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-17388457735945618972010-10-09T07:32:48.116-04:002010-10-09T07:32:48.116-04:00Enonydmous:
Very well put, indeed ... about rende...Enonydmous:<br /><br />Very well put, indeed ... about rendering, translating, and creating ... <br /><br />Lyle:<br /><br />Thanks very much for the note and pointing towards "Bashō's Ghost." I will definitely check it out. Going to visit a little more with "Sound of Water" in two future posts.<br /><br />Ever since I was captivated by Baudelaire's work a number of years back, I've been fascinated with putting different versions of poems side by side and feeling the <i>totality</i> of the translations. This seems to just begin to give a sense of the original poet. It's why I never come down too hard on any one approach - it's just another glimpse, moving a few steps along the ridge to see the sun sinking from a slightly different angle.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-24164342226275645662010-10-08T22:04:09.218-04:002010-10-08T22:04:09.218-04:00I pretty much agree with your comments here. In ge...I pretty much agree with your comments here. In general, while I've mostly enjoyed Hamill's translations (of haiku, and tanka, and of Basho's prose-and-haiku journals (I forget offhand the Japanese word for those), I've felt in his translating a slight distance, or distancing.<br /><br />I relate it to Fred's comment above -- I agree that Hamill sometimes tends to "interpret" them poem rather than presenting it directly. Not in every case, but I do feel this about his translations sometimes.<br /><br />Years back I read, and really liked, Sam Hamill's book <i>Basho's Ghost</i> (published by Broken Moon Press in Seattle, and long out of print as far as I know), more or less an account of his travels in Japan for a year or so, and exploring much Japanese poetry -- by various poets, of various periods -- along the way. I like it the most of everything I've read by Hamill.Lyle Daggetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10731915540520704368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-77697718157623977342010-10-08T14:20:29.496-04:002010-10-08T14:20:29.496-04:00well as a 'reader'
I like it suchly"...well as a 'reader'<br /><br />I like it suchly":<br /><br />crow on a bare branch --<br />autumn evening<br /><br />or, maybe:<br /><br />crow on bare branch<br />autumn evening<br /><br />or even-even<br /><br />old<br />crow<br /><br />on<br />bare <br /><br />branch<br /><br />or<br /><br />cawing crow<br />on old branch<br /> SHUT UP!<br /><br /><br />Kokkie<br /><br /><br />me-thinks that it is easier to translate another's lang than to<br />write in one's own ... a good poem (?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-73956534418726305802010-10-08T12:26:16.686-04:002010-10-08T12:26:16.686-04:00Fred, yes indeed I think you're right, on both...Fred, yes indeed I think you're right, on both counts.<br /><br />The Bashō poem is as it should - images presented for the reader to do what s/he will.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-80594951398190820872010-10-08T10:42:49.657-04:002010-10-08T10:42:49.657-04:00I have the same book--The Sound of Water--and I th...I have the same book--The Sound of Water--and I think Hamill frequently "interprets" the poem, rather than present the images in the poem and allow the reader to react. <br /><br />One of his translations that I did like was<br /><br />A solitary<br />crow on a bare branch--<br />autumn evening<br /><br />Here it's just images--a crow, a bare branch, and an autumn evening. He allows the readers to participate this time and react without his guidance.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.com