tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post8825002177676055808..comments2023-12-05T03:34:14.680-05:00Comments on <b>Issa's Untidy Hut</b>: A Little Treasury of Haiku: Part 1Issa's Untidy Huthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-91964518998078966962011-01-30T07:22:49.963-05:002011-01-30T07:22:49.963-05:00Fred,
Thanks for the great examples.
DonFred, <br /><br />Thanks for the great examples.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-9139684572563744452011-01-29T23:58:34.426-05:002011-01-29T23:58:34.426-05:00Lyle Daggett,
My answer would be the weaselly &qu...Lyle Daggett,<br /><br />My answer would be the weaselly "it depends." In some poems in translations, the 5-7-5 seems a perfect fit. In others, well, here is one favorite of mine from the LTH, trans. by Beilenson:<br /><br />Life! butterfly<br />On a swaying grass that's all . . .<br />But exquisite!<br />-- Soin --<br /><br />This is a 4-7-4.<br /><br />Here is another example of two versions of the same haiku:<br /><br />None broke the silence . . .<br />Nor visitor nor host . . . nor<br />White chrysanthemum<br />-- Ryota --<br />trans. Beilenson, LTH<br />5-7-5<br /><br /><br />or<br /><br />They spoke no word.<br />The visitor, the host,<br />And the white chrysanthemum.<br />-- Ryota --<br />trans RH Blyth _Silent Flowers_<br />4-6-7Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-25519653822046900992011-01-29T06:37:47.652-05:002011-01-29T06:37:47.652-05:00Fred:
I have to admit there are poems that I enj...Fred: <br /><br />I have to admit there are poems that I enjoyed that I haven't highlighted because I've covered them in previous posts in different translations, perhaps once too often. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it spilled over to a 4th post - 3rd is a definite though.<br /><br />Melissa:<br /><br />A tip o' the hat. This little collection, <a href="http://goo.gl/9HYG7" rel="nofollow">so inexpensive to acquire</a>, is really invaluable, and we have Fred to thank for sending me its way.<br /><br />Lyle:<br /><br />Very true. I think what we are looking at here is a snapshot of the resurgence of haiku in the West in the 60s & 70s. At that time, the 5/7/5 was a standard and, even though Beilenson is exemplary working in that tradition, one can occasionally feel lyrical touches and padding that wouldn't make the grade today. <br /><br />You are right about the fact that I prefer the modern, shorter translation approach and you are also right that I'm not particularly dogmatic about it. It's the approach I've always taken to the magazine - judge the work on its own terms, on what's on the page. Perhaps it isn't all that matters, but to me it is of primary importance. <br /><br />One thing your comment highlights for me is how relatively short the tradition of haiku is in English and how it is still ever changing as we try to wrap our minds around what haiku is and can be in English, both in translation and original.Issa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-74087890345454443712011-01-28T22:50:49.337-05:002011-01-28T22:50:49.337-05:00One thing I'm curious about -- if I'm not ...One thing I'm curious about -- if I'm not mistaken, all of the translations you've given here (and possibly all that are in the book? I've never seen the book first-hand) are made into the 5-7-5 syllable pattern.<br /><br />My general feeling (and I seem to recall you saying something similar at some point in the Untidy Hut here) is that when Japanese haiku are translated into English, when the translations are done well, the English translations usually have more words than the original Japanese, but fewer syllables (typically maybe 10 to 14 syllables in English).<br /><br />I perceive this not as a dogmatic position, just a general observation.<br /><br />I'm wondering if you feel that this enhances the translations, in this instance, or if it detracts from them in any way?Lyle Daggetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10731915540520704368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-67588150721383356172011-01-28T17:25:33.844-05:002011-01-28T17:25:33.844-05:00Thanks again for the shoutout, DW. :) Great post h...Thanks again for the shoutout, DW. :) Great post here, you keep adding to my reading list.Melissahttp://haikuproject.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-36790380703549002902011-01-28T16:40:11.252-05:002011-01-28T16:40:11.252-05:00I think my second favorite is also featured in you...I think my second favorite is also featured in your first post.<br /><br />I'm not surprised that you need a 3rd post, and I won't be surprised if you go to a 4th or even a 5th post. It's a great anthology.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-6007676243057105272011-01-28T16:29:32.687-05:002011-01-28T16:29:32.687-05:00Thanks also, Charles ... glad you liked.Thanks also, Charles ... glad you liked.Issa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-91444096331593402742011-01-28T16:29:14.470-05:002011-01-28T16:29:14.470-05:00Hey, Fred - I was hoping you'd get back in tou...Hey, Fred - I was hoping you'd get back in touch.<br /><br />I believe your 2nd favorite is featured in next week's post, which I'm working on this week. I actually go on about that one - it is one of my favorites also.<br /><br />By the way, it looks like I'm going to need a 3rd post to finish it. It really is a wonderful book.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Don<br /><br />PS The Basho is also great.Issa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-51564152724125748442011-01-28T14:16:39.194-05:002011-01-28T14:16:39.194-05:00I think I mentioned earlier as a comment that this...I think I mentioned earlier as a comment that this is my favorite haiku collection. It was also my first collection. I was searching through the poetry section of a used bookstore when I came across The Treasury for $2 or $3. I had heard of haiku before but had never really taken a close look, so this seemed like an opportunity and at a small cost.<br /><br />It also contains my favorite haiku:<br /><br />April's air stirs in<br />Willow leaves . . . a butterfly<br />Floats and balances.<br />-- Basho --<br /><br /><br />My second favorite is<br /><br /> Twilight whippoorwill . . .<br />Whistle on, sweet deepener<br /> of dark loneliness<br /> -- Basho --Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-18532351540184292012011-01-28T12:04:27.414-05:002011-01-28T12:04:27.414-05:00Great examples. I love the title also.Great examples. I love the title also.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com