tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post1595600055488150956..comments2023-12-05T03:34:14.680-05:00Comments on <b>Issa's Untidy Hut</b>: "Even in Kyoto ... I long for Kyoto:" Bashō by HassIssa's Untidy Huthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-61108381538616643642014-04-20T14:34:27.664-04:002014-04-20T14:34:27.664-04:00Thanks, A ... here's what the Japanese trap/ja...Thanks, A ... here's what the Japanese trap/jars look like ...<br /><br />http://bit.ly/1fcDVUo<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-79889554528950408062014-04-17T22:21:19.417-04:002014-04-17T22:21:19.417-04:00In the octopus jar haiku the "jar" that ...In the octopus jar haiku the "jar" that is referred to is actually an octopus trap. One catches octopuses by lowering a jar into the sea. The octopus makes it a comfy home until the fisherman pulls the jar out of the sea. So, the image isn't as strange as it might seem--it is simply describing the comfort that the octopus is experiencing inside the trap--enjoying fleeting, summery dreams--before it is abruptly yanked to the surface.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-44177640955319563812010-08-31T12:26:05.553-04:002010-08-31T12:26:05.553-04:00If memory serves, Sam Hamill's translation use...If memory serves, Sam Hamill's translation uses "pissing" or "pisses." <br /><br />For myself, Basho is one of the most profound and resonant poets of all time, in haiku, in haibun, in whatever. Basho's sense of the ephemeral nature of existence (the sabi of wabi-sabi) is at the root of all his writings; and in this he was profoundly influenced by Zen, which he studied. Basho continues to profoundly influence me; whenever I go on a road trip, a copy of (Oku no hosomichi) "Narrow Road to the Interior" goes with me. Every time I re-read one of Basho's travel journals with haiku, I get more out of it: which is the very definition of great literature.<br /><br />I feel little connection with Buson, because for the most part he's painterly and surface-oriented. Pretty images, indeed, but unlike Basho the images don't draw me deeper down towards that silent river of contemplation that lies under the surface of things.<br /><br />My favorite Issa poem (in Hamill's rendering here) is:<br /><br />This world of dew<br />is just a world of dew—<br />and yet. . . and yet. . .<br /><br />For me, that wraps up all of Issa's poignancy into one poem.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-581505614241817112010-08-28T17:23:12.406-04:002010-08-28T17:23:12.406-04:00I like Stryk's version even better. :-)I like Stryk's version even better. :-)Theresa Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103717736011804799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-68381473303858349812010-08-28T16:53:18.408-04:002010-08-28T16:53:18.408-04:00Theresa:
The hollyhocks is one of my favorites, t...Theresa:<br /><br />The hollyhocks is one of my favorites, too - here's Lucien Stryk's version, <a href="http://lilliputreview.blogspot.com/2008/08/bashos-journey-continues-and-dancing.html" rel="nofollow"> from a post back in 2008</a>, that I like very much: <br /><br />June rain,<br />hollyhocks turning<br />where sun should be.<br /><br />Your reading of cool melons has just lifted the poem right up for me, thanks for that.<br /><br />Ed, here's <a href="http://snipurl.com/10uh5w" rel="nofollow"> lots of that book you are talking</a> about for folks to dip their big toe into ...Issa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-32908640266075995992010-08-28T14:59:07.551-04:002010-08-28T14:59:07.551-04:00pee est..
heressssss WET!
http://www.wunderland....pee est..<br /><br />heressssss WET!<br /><br />http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Rash/misc/wet/wet1.htmEd Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-10248587354097405092010-08-28T14:55:11.346-04:002010-08-28T14:55:11.346-04:00I have a phun book:
"Wabi-Sabi for Artists, ...I have a phun book:<br /><br />"Wabi-Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets & Philosophers"<br /><br />"[...]the author. Leonard Koren was trained as an architect but never built anything - except an eccentric Japanese tea house - because he found large large, permanent objects too philosophically vexing to<br />design. Instead he crated WET: The Magazine of Gourmet Bathing, one of the premier avant garde magazines of the 1970's. [...]."<br /><br />I have never seen a single issue of this magazine, though I was greatly influenced by Tonto's<br /> Kemo Sabe<br />and a hearty <br />Hi Ho Silver<br /> AWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEd Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-55762578736431891712010-08-28T14:49:41.758-04:002010-08-28T14:49:41.758-04:00Don, thank you! I am looking forward to the back ...Don, thank you! I am looking forward to the back issues!Theresa Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103717736011804799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-33497696995361952152010-08-28T14:46:41.080-04:002010-08-28T14:46:41.080-04:00By the way, I, too, vote for "pissing." ...By the way, I, too, vote for "pissing." Much more honest, funny, and pleasing to the ear. Not to mention that the word "pissing" actually sounds like the act itself. <br /><br />Now to share two of my favorite Basho haiku:<br />__________________________________<br /><br />The hollyhocks<br />lean toward the sun<br />in the May rain<br /><br />I love this one because of the sadness of rain, the happiness of the sun, and how the hollyhocks instinctively know what to do in the moment.<br />___________________________________<br /><br />Coolness of the melons<br />flecked with mud<br />in the morning dew<br /><br />This one has everything: the concept of impermanence (dew), the joy of the cool melons (and anticipation of life-giving refreshment) and the sad intimation of death, returning to earth (flecked with mud). Ah, so beautiful, it makes my throat ache!Theresa Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103717736011804799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-236603542560994782010-08-28T14:43:45.053-04:002010-08-28T14:43:45.053-04:00Theresa:
I think your comment touches on what Cha...Theresa:<br /><br />I think your comment touches on what Charles sensed, what I was trying to say, and what DG summed up so well.<br /><br />Glad you liked it. On a side note, two back issues went out in the mail to you this morning. Your suggestions are posted on the <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/lilliputreview/nearperfectbooksofpoems" rel="nofollow">Near Perfect list</a>.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-36607882053004545952010-08-28T14:26:42.920-04:002010-08-28T14:26:42.920-04:00Basho is my favorite of the haiku poets because of...Basho is my favorite of the haiku poets because of the loneliness in his poems. I finally got all of the Blythe volumes and was reading in volume one that loneliness "is in the painful things that happen when we are happy." It's this spirit of existing that has remained with me since I was a child. How soothing to find it in Basho's poems and know I am not alone in this way of observing the world. Fine post, Don. Thank you.Theresa Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103717736011804799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-9152734310775958592010-08-28T10:07:29.739-04:002010-08-28T10:07:29.739-04:00DG:
I think you are spot on ... I should have mo...DG: <br /><br />I think you are spot on ... I should have more precise in what I sad. I guess I was thinking that when the concepts are combined, they incorporate aspects of both elements.<br /><br />Thanks very much for the note.<br /><br />DonIssa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-40900132203329774542010-08-28T09:45:47.745-04:002010-08-28T09:45:47.745-04:00Actually, I believe sabi is the lonely/sad part of...Actually, I believe <i>sabi</i> is the lonely/sad part of <i>wabi-sabi</i>, deriving from the same root as <i>sabishii</i>, "lonely, sad, disconsolate". <i>Wabi</i> refers to the simple/rustic element of the Zen-influenced aesthetic, if I understand correctly.D Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481677665963009238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-84230512123860085062010-08-28T09:33:30.524-04:002010-08-28T09:33:30.524-04:00Frank:
Thanks for the kind words and tip to the D...Frank:<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words and tip to the David Gitlin audio. The Kyoto haiku recalls Issa's on the fly, the man, and the large room (which always sounds to me like the start of one of those jokes ...)<br /><br />Another "full moon" beauty, Ed ...<br /><br />Charles:<br /><br />That feeling of melancholy is actually a large part of the Japanese aesthetic. The concept of <a href="http://nobleharbor.com/tea/chado/WhatIsWabi-Sabi.htm" rel="nofollow"> wabi-sabi</a> incorporates that feeling of melancholy and sadness in the overall acceptance of the transience of all things. Here's a quote from the above link:<br /><br />"Wabi stems from the root wa, which refers to harmony, peace, tranquility, and balance. Generally speaking, wabi had the original meaning of sad, desolate, and lonely, but poetically it has come to mean simple, unmaterialistic, humble by choice, and in tune with nature."<br /><br />Like Ed said ...<br /><br />tenzing: <br /><br />I am coming around to your way of thinking about Bashō. Certainly, along with his strengths are Hass's weaknesses in rendering work. So many of the translations depend on Blythe, which again has its pluses and minuses. His notes freely admit what he is about when notes are supplied. Ultimately, I think Hass's approach can be instructive for a novice like myself.<br /><br />Frank (again): Thanks for the haiku ... I don't know this one and it is intriguing, indeed.Issa's Untidy Huthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352841590717991698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-76353924610783750492010-08-28T09:18:01.832-04:002010-08-28T09:18:01.832-04:00tenzing - I agree with you completely. I much pref...tenzing - I agree with you completely. I much prefer your translation too. My favorite Basho:<br /><br />between the moon coming out<br />and the sun going in<br />the red dragon fliesFrank Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09486916593945680342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-41470316229570738062010-08-28T09:14:45.594-04:002010-08-28T09:14:45.594-04:00Yes and thank you, Ed.
You can listen to David rea...Yes and thank you, Ed.<br />You can listen to David reading his new book, The Journey Home (due out late fall from Blue Wind), on my web site: http://frankshome.orgFrank Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09486916593945680342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-33352733846545781312010-08-27T13:23:35.459-04:002010-08-27T13:23:35.459-04:00dear don and all
a great fave basho for me
fleas...dear don and all<br /><br />a great fave basho for me<br /><br />fleas, lice<br />a horse pissing<br />by my pillow<br /><br />hass has that 'peeing,' a poor choice imo. another trans. uses 'piddle,' which is just ridiculous.<br /><br />basho remains for me the classical haiku poet of the widest range and the most mature/zenlike voice. the range one reason he's compared to shakespeare.<br /><br />yrz, tenzingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-47666935260249537302010-08-27T11:52:10.405-04:002010-08-27T11:52:10.405-04:00Charles,
I suspect that they appear "melanch...Charles,<br /><br />I suspect that they appear "melancholy" to you is due to the turn away from the 'animistic and the magical<br />Nembutsu which was flourishing among the masses/the 'riff-raff'<br />to a Pure Land orthodoxy<br /><br />so,<br />on April 13, 1321 (accor Shiren wrote<br />about that many Nembutsu priests and priestesses<br />of the lower class/(haiku) poets all!attended banquets to perform their Nembutsu singing, dancing, poetry-reciting, and thereby, together with the blind musicians and dancing girls, entertained the guests.*<br /><br />so<br /><br />losing all of this ... erotica... to the Pure Land Orthodoxy sure did support a dirges-tic melancholy that we yet suffer from.<br /><br />* see Ichiro Hori's "Folk Religion in Japan"<br /><br />page 127Ed Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-31894644721454339922010-08-27T11:09:52.391-04:002010-08-27T11:09:52.391-04:00It's probably just me, but to me many of the b...It's probably just me, but to me many of the best haiku have a melancholoy quality.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-47782523849623017342010-08-27T08:52:01.887-04:002010-08-27T08:52:01.887-04:00David Gitin goes back
long time
in-to things ......David Gitin goes back <br />long time<br />in-to things ..... precisely<br /><br />so too you do Frank<br /><br />full moon<br />paying attention<br />to my every word<br /><br />cheers, EdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5849270578857708223.post-37199246828393539722010-08-27T08:28:20.060-04:002010-08-27T08:28:20.060-04:00Good morning, Don,
When ever I see haiku that ment...Good morning, Don,<br />When ever I see haiku that mentions Kyoto I think of this poem by our friend David Gitin:<br /><br />KYOTO<br /><br /><br />in the company<br /><br />all night<br /><br />of a horsefly<br /><br /><br />--David GitinFrank Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09486916593945680342noreply@blogger.com